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Frequently Asked Questions (FAQS);faqs.218



   Jill died because she wanted to.

   Jane died because she believed in a religion that forbids life
   extension.

I prefer endings like that over having nearly everyone die of symptoms
of the same disease (that is, aging) regardless of whether they want
to continue, and regardless of how well they were living their life.

3-7.  Would it be better to be suspended now or later?

In general, one should live as long as possible and be suspended as
late as possible.  An exception to this is if one has some disease
that threatens to destroy the information in the brain, thus
decreasing the quality of the suspension.

The later one is suspended, the better the suspension will be because
of generally advancing technology.  This increases the chances that
one will come back at all, as well as increasing the chances that
one will come back in a world that one can deal with.

Of course, one never knows when an accident or disease could happen
that leaves one with the choice to be suspended now or not to be
suspended at all.  So don't postpone your cryonics arrangements if
you are going to do them.

3-8.  Why would anyone be revived?

CRFT gives a detailed answer on pages 46 - 47.

This has been discussed extensively on the cryonics mailing list.
To get a copy of the discussion, fetch CRYOMSG 0001 and then fetch
all messages with "Motivation" in the subject.  There are 22
messages as of July 28, 1992.  To summarize one of the motivations
for revival:

Cryonics patients will be revived in the future for the same reason
they are frozen today: a cryonics organization will be caring for
them.  The success of cryonics is not predicated upon the good will
of society in general, but rather on the good will and continuity
of cryonics organizations.  As long as a corps of dedicated
individuals continues to care for patients in suspension, those
same individuals will be able to revive patients when the
technology becomes available to do so.  Their motives will be the
same as those that drive people involved in cryonics today: the
knowledge that their own lives may someday depend on the integrity
of their cryonics organization.

3-9.  Is there a conflict between cryonics and religious beliefs?

If revival is possible, cryonic suspension is in no greater conflict
with religion than is any other life-saving medical technology.  If a
religion does not object to resuscitating someone who has experienced
clinical death from a heart attack, it should not object to reviving
suspension patients.

On the other hand, if revival turns out to be impossible, then the
question becomes whether the suspension is consistent with whatever
instructions the religion gives for dealing with funerals.

Perhaps the most honest approach is to look at the instructions a
religion gives for dealing with a missing person who is not known to be
either dead or alive.

3-10. Is attempting to extend life consistent with Christianity?

All religions teach that life in this world has a purpose and a value.
The Christian denominations in particular teach that improving the
condition and length of human life in this world are of great
importance.  Indeed, all of the miraculous acts of Jesus which serve as
the vindication of his divinity were aimed at improving the temporal
human condition: feeding the hungry masses, healing the sick, and raising
the dead.  In Matthew 10:8, Jesus commanded his disciples to go forth and
do as he had done.

In most versions of Christianity, someone who refused medical care for
a treatable injury or illness would not be considered either very
rational or very conscientious in their religious duties.  The point
is that life has a purpose here and now and there is nothing wrong
with acting to extend and enhance that life if it is lived morally and
well.
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 4: Controversy surrounding Cryonics
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
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         Section 4: Controversy surrounding Cryonics

(You can fetch cryomsg "n" by sending mail to [e-mail] or
to [e-mail] with the subject line "CRYOMSG n".  The index
to this FAQ list is cryomsg "0018.1".)

4-1.  Why do cryobiologists have such a low opinion of cryonics?  How did this
      start, and how does it continue?

Cryobiologists are scientists who study the effects of cold on
living systems such as insects, embryos, and organs.  Those few who
specialize in the cryobiology of organs and larger animals do posses
knowledge relevant to the preservation phase of cryonics, although they
are seldom familiar with the future repair technologies cryonics depends
on.  Unfortunately this is a recipe for misunderstanding.

Knowing full well all the damage inflicted by today's freezing
techniques, and being ignorant of the prospects for repairing it, most
cryobiologists believe cryonics cannot work.  They view it as an
illegitimate pursuit that attracts unwarranted media attention, and that
tarnishes the image of their own profession.  The resulting hostility
toward cryonics is often so great that even cryobiologists sympathetic
to cryonics cannot openly state their views without fear of ostracism.

4-2.  Who made the statement about reviving a frozen person being similar to
      reconstructing the cow from hamburger?

The cryobiologist Arthur Rowe is responsible for promoting this
misrepresentation.  Specifically, he says:
  "Believing cryonics could reanimate somebody who has been
  frozen is like believing you can turn hamburger back into
  a cow."

The analogy is not valid.  Some vertebrates can survive freezing, but
no vertebrates can survive grinding.

Here is what CRFT said on page A-40:
"This is absurd.  Cryonics patients are frozen long before most of
their cells die or become structurally disorganized.  The freezing
techniques used in cryonic suspension are based upon hundreds of
published studies in which scientists have shown that almost all
mammalian cells, including brain cells, can survive freezing and
thawing!"

As an interesting aside, according to Matthew P Wiener
([e-mail]), sponges can reassemble themselves
after being diced up into small pieces.  I don't know if they could
survive grinding, and I don't know if each piece occupies the same
location after dicing as before.

4-3.  What was the Dora Kent case?

Dora Kent is the mother of Saul Kent, a longtime supporter of
cryonics and leader of the Life Extension Foundation.  On
December 11, 1988, she was suspended (head-only) by Alcor.
Although Dora was clinically dead at that time, she was not
legally dead due to an administrative oversight.

The coroner autopsied the non-suspended portion of Dora's remains.  At
first the conclusion was that Dora died of pneumonia.  Later the
croner retracted this, and on January 7, 1988 the coroner's deputies
took all of Alcor's patient care records and attempted to take Dora's
head for autopsy.  Mike Darwin said that the head was not at Alcor's
headquarters and he did not know where it was.  Mike Darwin and five
other Alcor members were arrested, but when they arrived at the jail
the police realized that they have no charges to use against them.

On January 12 and 13, the Coroner's deputies, UCLA police, and a SWAT
team again entered Alcor's headquarters and removed all computing
equipment in sight, all magnetic media including an answering machine
tape, and prescription medications used for suspensions.  Many items
were taken that were not on the warrant.

Years of legal wrangling ensued.  The final outcome was that the
coroner lost the next election, Alcor's equipment was returned but
damaged, and all charges against Alcor or Alcor members were
eventually defeated or dropped.  None of Alcor's patients were
thawed.  Fortunately, no suspensions needed to be done while
the police had custody of Alcor's equipment.

References: Cryonics 10(12), December 1989, and 9(1), January 1988.

4-4.  What about that fellow in the news with the brain tumor?

His name is Thomas Donaldson.  His tumor is not growing at present,
but when and if it begins growing again, it is likely to seriously
damage his brain before it kills him.  He went to court to petition
for the right to be suspended before legal death.  The case has been
appealed several times.  He lost the most recent appeal, as of July
16, 1992. The decisions of the judges are available from Alcor.
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 5: Neurosuspension
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
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              Section 5: Neurosuspension

(You can fetch cryomsg "n" by sending mail to [e-mail] or
to [e-mail] with the subject line "CRYOMSG n".  The index
to this FAQ list is cryomsg "0018.1".)

5-1.  What are the pros and cons of neurosuspension (only freezing the head)?

(The next two paragraphs are taken from CRYOMSG 6.)

An undisputed advantage of the neuro option (over whole body) is cost,
both for suspension and for maintenance (liquid nitrogen required to
remain frozen).  Another advantage is the quality of perfusion with
cryoprotectants attained during suspension.  Each organ has its own
optimal perfusion protocol and when the suspension can concentrate on
the head only, the quality of perfusion of the brain does not have to
be compromised to attain better perfusion of other parts of the body.
Another important advantage of the neuro option is mobility.  Whole
body suspendees are stored in large, bulky containers that are hard to
transport whereas the neuro suspendees are stored in a concrete vault
on wheels that can be quickly hauled away in case of fire or other
emergency.  (Also, if necessary, they can be removed from the large
vault and transported in smaller units that fit into a van.)

An obvious disadvantage of the neuro option is bad PR; it sounds
gruesome.  Also, one would think that revival (as a whole,
functioning, healthy human being) when only your head was preserved
would be more difficult than if your entire body was preserved.
However, the whole body situation may not be that much better.  Mike
Darwin of Alcor noticed several years ago, when examing two suspended
people being transferred from another organization to Alcor, that
every organ of their bodies suffers cracking from thermal stress
during freezing.  In particular, the spinal cords suffered several
fractures.  Thus, the whole bodies were not quite as "whole" as most
people assumed.  Another reason that a whole body may not offer much
more than the head alone is that the technology required to revive
people from (whole or neuro) cryonic suspension should also be able to
clone bodies, which is much simpler than fixing damaged cells.  One
possible objection to this approach of recloning a body to attach to
the head was voiced by Paul Segal of ACS (in the April 1988 issue of
The Immortalist).  He suggested that adult cells in the head may be
missing some of the DNA needed to reclone the remainder of the body.
Even if this objection is valid, it is easy to circumvent by storing
samples of all the major organs with the preserved head (which is
standard practice at Alcor).

If the technology for suspension improves enough to make it
possible to store a body without much damage, that might tilt the
ideal tradeoff away from neurosuspension if the stored body is easily
repairable.

See the booklet "Neuropreservation: Advantages and Disadvantages"
published by Alcor for a more thorough discussion.

5-2.  How many people have chosen neurosuspension over whole-body
      suspension? (This question has only a partial answer.)

The different organizations market neurosuspension differently, so
the answer depends on which organization you have in mind.

>>>Question sent to [e-mail] on Wed Jul 29 1992<<<

As of June 20, 1992, Alcor had 271 suspension members and 22
members in suspension.  I don't yet have information about how
many of the suspension members have chose neuropreservation.

ACS has six whole bodies, two heads, and two brains in cryonic
suspension.  They can do neurosuspensions, but they do not promote the
option.  Art Quaife estimates that less than 20% of the living
members of ACS have chosen neuropreservation.

The Cryonics Institute does not do neurosuspensions.
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 6: Suspension Arrangements
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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          Section 6: Suspension Arrangements

(You can fetch cryomsg "n" by sending mail to [e-mail] or
to [e-mail] with the subject line "CRYOMSG n".  The index
to this FAQ list is cryomsg "0018.1".)

6-1.  How many people are frozen right now?

The July 1992 issue of Cryonics magazine, published by the Alcor
Life Extension Foundation, includes a status report of all the
approximately 60 people who have been cryonically suspended.
Over 40 of these are still in suspension today; the remainder have
been thawed and buried because their cryonics organization failed
financially.  According to Mike Perry's July 1992 Cryonics magazine
summary of all known cryonic suspension patients, nobody suspended
since 1978 has been thawed out, with one possible exception of a
private suspension done in 1982 for which we have no further
information.

6-2.  How is suspension paid for?

The person who makes the cryonics arrangements pays for suspension,
usually with life insurance.  Some life insurance companies refuse
to accept a cryonics organization as the beneficiary.  Check with
your insurance agent, or check with your cryonics organization for a
list of cooperative companies.

6-3.  How will reanimation be paid for?

The cryonics organization, relatives, or some charity will pay for
reanimation if it happens.  There is also the Reanimation Foundation,
which is an attempt to allow people to fund their own reanimation.

6-4.  What suspension organizations are available?

For a complete list of cryonics suspension organizations and other
cryonics-related organizations and publications, fetch cryomsg 0004.

The largest cryonic suspension organizations are:

Alcor is not only a membership and caretaking organization but also does
the cryonic suspensions, using Alcor employees, contract surgeons, and
volunteers plus equipment and supplies provided by Cryovita.
    Alcor Life Extension Foundation
    12327 Doherty St.
    Riverside, CA 92503
    [phone] & [phone]
    FAX [phone]
    Email: [e-mail]
    Cryonics magazine, monthly, $25./yr. USA,
           $35./yr. Canada & Mexico, $40./yr. overseas
           ($10./yr. USA gift subscription for new subscriber)

The American Cryonics Society is the membership organization and the
suspensions and caretaking are done by Trans Time.
    American Cryonics Society (ACS)
    P.O. Box 761
    Cupertino, CA 95015
    [phone]
    FAX [phone], 24 hr FAX [phone]
    Supporting membership, including American Cryonics and American
       Cryonics News $35./yr. USA, $40. Canada & Mexico, $71. overseas
       (Note: The Immortalist (below) includes American Cryonics News.)

The Cryonics Institute does its own suspension and caretaking of patients.
    Cryonics Institute (CI)
    24443 Roanoke
    Oak Park, MI 48237
    [phone] & [phone]
    The Immortalist Society, which has the same address and phone number,
       publishes The Immortalist, monthly, $25./yr. USA, $30./yr. Canada
       and Mexico, $40./yr. overseas.  Airmail $52. Europe, $62. Asia or
       Australia.  A gift subscription ($15./yr. USA, $25. outside USA)
       includes a free book (The Prospect of Immortality or Man Into
       Superman).

The International Cryonics Foundation has arrangements with Trans Time to
do the cryonics suspensions and caretaking of patients.
    International Cryonics Foundation
    1430 N. El Dorado
    Stockton, CA 95202
    [phone]
    [phone]

Trans Time does suspensions and caretaking for both ACS and ICF and also
has taken on suspension customers directly who didn't go through either
non-profit organization.
    Trans Time, Inc.
    10208 Pearmain St.
    Oakland, CA 94603
    510-639-1955
    Email: [e-mail]

6-5.  How can I get financial statements for the various organizations to
      evaluate their stability?

At this point the best option is to send them paper mail or call
them and ask.  I would like to eventually get current financial
statements from all of the on-line.

6-6.  How hard will these people work to freeze me?

The Dora Kent case described above is an example.  See question 4-3.

6-7.  What obligations do the suspension organizations have to the people
      they have suspended?  Will they pay for revival and rehabilitation?

Alcor's Consent for Cryonic Suspension states "there are no
guarantees that any attempt will ever be made to return me to
healthy life".  The Cryonic Suspension Agreement states "Alcor shall
use such methods as its good faith judgement determined will be most
likely to result in preservation and revival of the patient."

Reference: Alcor's book "Signing Up Made Simple", 1987.

6-8.  How long has this been going on?

Robert Ettinger proposed the idea in The Prospect of Immortality
which was published in 1964.  According to the July 1992 issue of
Cryonics magazine, the first person suspended was Dr. James
Bedford.  He was frozen on 12 Jan. 1967 at the age of 73 by the
Cryonics Society of California and is now with Alcor.

Bedford has never thawed during that time. When he was moved to
another dewar in 1991 (?) the original ice cubes were still intact
and several other signs indicated that he had never thawed out.

6-9.  How much of the resources of the cryonics organizations are reserved
      for reviving patients?

Alcor's approach to this is discussed in detail in CRFT page
A-36.  They compute the costs of liquid nitrogen, dewar maintenance,
rent, etc., per year.  The amount of the trust fund for each patient
is twice the amount necessary to pay for this indefinitely assuming
a 2% return on investment after inflation.  The doubling
mentioned in the previous sentence is to provide a margin for error
and funds for revival.

Assuming that the costs of storage do not change, and a 2%
return on investment, and the most efficient storage for a
neurosuspension patient, the value of the fund in 1991 dollars y
years after suspension is

   $3300 + ($3300 * (1.02 ^ y))

The corresponding figures for the least efficient storage for a
whole-body patient are

   $84357 + ($84357 * (1.02 ^ y))

Alcor's minimum fee for suspension and storage does not depend on how
they are going to do the storage, so it isn't clear to me how the
numbers derived in CRFT page A-36 should compare to Alcor's suspension
minimums.

6-10.*What should I do if I want to be frozen but my relatives hate the idea?

>>> Question sent to Alcor on Fri Jul 24 17:34:44 1992 <<<

6-11. How can I pay for my own revival and rehabilitation, and keep some of
      my financial assets after revival?

The Reanimation Foundation is set up to enable you to "take it with you"
and provide financial support for your reanimation, reeducation, and
reentry.  It is based in Liechtenstein, which does not have a Rule Against
Perpetuities, and thus allows financial assets to be owned by a person
long after the person is declared legally dead.
    Reanimation Foundation
    c/o Saul Kent
    16280 Whispering Spur
    Riverside, CA 92504
    (800) 841-LIFE
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 7: Cost of Cryonics
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Dec 92 08:39:12 GMT
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             Section 7: Cost of Cryonics

(You can fetch cryomsg "n" by sending mail to [e-mail] or
to [e-mail] with the subject line "CRYOMSG n".  The index
to this FAQ list is cryomsg "0018.1".)

7-1.  Why does cryonics cost so much?

Alcor has available a 15-page $3.00 reprint on "The Cost of Cryonics".
Also, Appendix C of CRFT has the same title.  Here is a summary
from Page A-36 (which I rounded to the nearest 50 dollars):

                             Whole Body         Neuro
Remote Transport             $14,050.         $14,050.
Cryoprotective Perfusion     $13,400.         $11,500.
Laboratory Evaluations       $   950.         $   950.
Temperature Descent          $ 8,350.         $ 1,750.
Record Keeping               $   450.         $   400.
------------------------     --------         --------
Total                        $37,200.         $28,650.

Annual Liquid Nitrogen       $   850.         $    50.  "Bigfoot" Dewar
    Storage Costs            $ 1,700.         $   150.  Older-Style Dewars

The funds remaining after the suspension costs must be sufficient to
pay the annual liquid nitrogen costs from interest alone (which is
conservatively estimated as 2% in inflation-adjusted dollars).
The current fees ($42,000. for neuro and $140,000. for whole-body
approximate that well.)
Bear in mind that the above costs do not include extensive and/or
remote standby, which can be quite expensive, so everyone should
arrange funding in excess of the minimums.

Other organizations have lower fees.  There have been debates about
how much money is really needed.  (Citation?)

7-2.  Is anyone getting rich from cryonics?  What are the salaries at these
      organizations like?

In December 1990, Cryonics magazine reported that the Board of
Directors of Alcor voted a 25% pay cut for all of the staff, so they
could keep their budget balanced.  Many of the Directors are also on
the staff.  The salaries after the cut ranged from $22,500 annually
for highest paid full-time employee (the President) to $14,400 for
the lowest-paid full-time employee.  None of the Alcor staff are
getting rich from their salaries.

7-3. *How do cryonics organizations invest their money to last for the long
      term?

>>> Question sent to Alcor on Fri Jul 24 17:34:44 1992 <<<
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 8: Communications
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Dec 92 08:39:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.part8_723198982
Expires: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 08:36:22 GMT
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Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News System)
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Archive-name: cryonics-faq/part8

              Section 8: Communications

(You can fetch cryomsg "n" by sending mail to [e-mail] or
to [e-mail] with the subject line "CRYOMSG n".  The index
to this FAQ list is cryomsg "0018.1".)

8-1.  How can I get more information?

Steve Bridge's "Introduction to Cryonics" gives a quick, three-page
overview of cryonics. This overview is cryomsg 972.

For a more detailed introduction, including a discussion of the
scientific evidence that freezing injury may be repairable, read the
booklet "Cryonics: Reaching for Tomorrow", which is available from the
Alcor Life Extension Foundation (Question 6-4 has the address).  The
first copy is free.  It also includes an extensive Question and Answer
section.

The books "Engines of Creation" and "Unbounding the Future", by
K. Eric Drexler, et al. describe nanotechnology (also called
molecular nanotechnology or molecular engineering).  This is the
kind of technology needed to revive anyone preserved with today's
methods of cryonic suspension.

The largest three suspension organizations each have newsletters.  For
contact information about on them, see the answer to Question 6-4.

8-2.  What is a cryomsg?  How do I fetch one?

There has been a cryonics mailing list since July 1988.
Cryomsg's are mostly the archived messages from this mailing list.

To get a cryomsg, send mail to [e-mail] or to
[e-mail] with the subject "CRYOMSG nnn nnn" where the
nnn's are the numbers of the cryomsg's you want. Cryomsgs numbers
100, 200, ..., 900 have one line summaries of the preceding 100
cryomsg's.  Message number 0000 has a top level index, and message
number 0001 has the subjects of all of the messages.  Message 0004
has a list of cryonics suspension organizations and also
cryonics-related organizations and publications.  Message 0005 is
entitled "Suggested reference messages for new subscribers".
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,news.answers
Subject: Cryonics FAQ 9: Glossary
Summary: This posting contains a list of Frequently Asked Questions
   and their answers about cryonics, the practice of carefully preserving
   very recently clinically and legally dead people in hopes that they can be
   revived in the future.  It should be read
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Date: 1 Dec 92 08:40:09 GMT